Leutnant Franz Kaster and Leuntant Langhoff
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According to the RAF Museum website : “1915 – 26 May Seventeen French Voisin biplanes of Groupe de Bombardment I conduct an attack on a strategic military target at Ludwigshafen in Germany.
Oberleutnant Kastner and Leutnant Georg Langhoff (observer) attack and shoot down a French Voisin in their Halberstadt C-type at Dournai in France. This is the first intentional attack by a German aeroplane on another armed aeroplane.”
26 May 1915 seems very late for such a claim ?
Can anyone supply me with a unit for Leutnant Franz Kaestner (observer Leutnant Langhoff) who claimed a VB108 Voisin on 26.5.1915 ?
I believe that they were in 150 hp DFW C80/15, and that a 100 hp Aviatik and 150 hp Albatros were engaged in the encounter also.
According to ‘Above Ypres’, by Bernard Deneckere, on 10 May 1915, Leutnant Wilhelm Frankl, FFA 40, shot down a Voisin with a ‘carbine’, for which he received the Iron Cross First Class. I assume that he was a ‘Leutnant’ at the time, as Deneckere then goes on to say that Frankl was promoted to Vizefeldwebel later in the year !
This is the same Frankl who was awarded the Pour le Merite and commanded Jasta 4, and is the subject of the 1967 Nowarra booklet ‘The Jew with the Blue Max’ ?
Deneckere identified this as ‘the first German victory as observer’.
Another candidate for ‘Franz Kaestner’, Hauptmann Gustav Kastner-Kirdorf, replaced Siegert as OC of the BAO, until August, 1915, when he took part of the BAO to Metz to form the BAM.
The French Air Service War Chronology 14-18 has Pilot Cpl Maxime de Verrier and Gunner Sol Lattard listed as MIA on 26.5.15. Unfortunately machine type is not mentioned and their unit is given as GB 3, not GB 1, so these casualties may of course not be related to the above incident.
Also no mention of who was responsible for the above men’s demise. No Voisins are mentioned by name on this date.
It may be that the two statements from the RAFM website are not connected, or is inaccurate in detail.
Note also that the RAFM mentions a Halberstadt C-type, and not a DFW.
GB3 consisted of VB 107, 108 & 109: ll Voisin units at this time.
Le Verrier was taken prisoner, and Lattard died of wounds in a German hospital.
If this was the first German aerial victory, it is a significant event, yet I can’t seem to find a source that gives me Kastner’s unit, let alone that of the other aircraft involved in the combat.
Thanks for putting me right Nick ref the GB3/VB108 details. Hopefully someone out there will come up trumps and furnish you with the correct sources etc.
I have been through all my German sources, without success, and the internet offers the usual everyone copying everyone else without checking (or mentioning) sources.
There seems to have been a couple of Americans flying as observers with VB108 around this time (Norman Prince won a Croix de Guerre ?), so there may be some information from US sources, though those I have seem to start the story with Lafayette just as the German sources (and others) ignore aerial combat prior to the Fokker.
http://www.frontflieger.de/2-ffa012.html notes a Franz Kaestner serving with FFA12.
The only Kastners I’ve found are Gustav Kaestner-Kirdorf and Hermann Kaestner, both of FFA62
The TSTB entry for the day has this note:
“Some authorities believe that the first successful aerial combat by a German aircraft took place on this day. A C-type machine in transit between FAb12 and FAb20 claimed to have shot down an Allied aircraft”.Gentlemen,
On 27 February 1917 a Ltn. (or possibly Oblt.) F Kaestner was made POW after being shot down by French AA fire during a raid on Salonika. I wonder if this is the same individual? At the time of his capture he was part of the escort flight of KG1 and was flying a Halberstadt DII. According to an RFC document his unit (prior to joining the air service) was Jaeger Battalion 13, in case this is of any help in tracing his service.
Regards,
Mike.
Hauptmann Kaestner, co of FA62, was a pre-war pilot, presumably the one mentioned below:
A Long Flight in Germany. LIEUT. KASTNER, accompanied by Lieut. Niemoeller, accomplished a splendid flight on Friday week the 4th inst., when he landed at Hanover, having covered over 240 kiloms. in two hours and three quarters. Flight, 12.10.19112, p922
German Long Distance Flying . I N connection with the prize offered in Germany for the longest flight in 24 hours, Schueller, on the 31st Oct., covered a circuit from Leipzig to Halle sixteen times and then flew to Potsdam, Johannisthal and Posen, being brought down at the last place by a broken petrol pipe. The total distance covered was about 1,600 kiloms. There seems to be some uncertainty as to whether the flights for the prize should be made in a straight line, and if this is so Victor Stoeffler may lose the first prize. Up to the present the outstanding performances in the competition are :—Stoeffler, 2,150 kiloms. ; Schlegel, 1,480 kiloms. ; Kasper, 1,450 kiloms. ; Thelen, 1,330 kiloms. ; Stoeffler, 1,300 kiloms. ; Lieut. Kastner, 1,250 kiloms.; Friedrich, 1,120 kiloms.; Stiefvater, 1,100 kiloms.; Wieting, 1,020 kiloms. ; Lieut. Geyer, 1,015 kiloms. Flight, 8.11.1913, p1231
PRINCE HENRY PRIZE COMPETITION. UNFORTUNATELY the bad weather rather spoilt proceedings on the epening day of the Prince Henry Competition at Wiesbaden on Saturday week, but nevertheless all the competitors managed to carry out the qualifying flights. There were a dozen military entrants for the whole competition, and eleven private competitors, while Herr Grade was entered hors concours. In addition thirteen military aviators had entered for the reconnoitring flights taking place on the last two days. There were one or two more or less exciting incidents on the first day at Wiesbaden. Hirth made a sudden landing with the Albatross monoplane and his passenger, Lieut. Palmer, was slightly hurt. Lieut. Linke’s machine collided with Thelen’s biplane, but fortunately with no very serious results. The first stage of the competition was held on Sunday week, the course being from Wiesbaden to Cassel, a distance of 100 kiloms. with a stop at Giessen. Prince Henry of Prussia, with the Grand Dukes of Baden and Hesse, and the Prince of Hohenzollem were present at the start, and Prince Henry followed the aviators in his motor car. Starting from Wiesbaden at 7 o’clock, most of the aviators made the 60 kiloms. journey to Giessen in about half an hour. The remainder of the journey to Cassel had to lie made under very unpleasant conditions, there being a strong wind and heavy rain. In spite of this thirteen out of the eighteen starters arrived, and one other, Lieut. Sommer, landed about 10 kiloms. short of bis destination. Those who got through were Bluthgen,Canter,von Thuna, von Beaulieu.Kastner, Donnevert, von Haller, von Hiddessen, Joly, Carganico, Thelen, Schlegel, and Suvelack. Lieut. Weyer had a bad smash at Nordenstadt, while Lieut. Vierling’s machine was seriously damaged at Massenlieim. At a meeting held in the evening it was decided to postpone the start on the following morning for some hours, in the hope that the sun would dry the ground a little, and give the machines a better chance of getting away in good style. Seven machines started between a quarter to eight and half-past nine, and in the afternoon five others started. Lieuts. Sommer and Engwer arrived at Cassel, and the former was among those who went on. Those who completed the 170 kiloms. from Cassel to Coblentz were Thelen, von Beaulieu, von Mailer, von Hiddessen, von Thuna, Canter, Joly, Schlegel, Suvelack and Carganico. The best time was made by Thelen, I hr. 42 rains. During the day Lieut. Coerper and Lieut. Zwickau completed the first stage to t’assel and the former got through to Coblentz on the 13th inst., when most of the competitors enjoyed a day’s rest. On the 14th inst. J 3 machines started for the last stage to Carlsruhe, with iHtours over Worms, Mayence, Frankfort and Ncustadt, representing a total distance of about 316 kiloms. Only 3 machines succeeded in getting through, the pilots being von Hiddessen and Canter, the third ln-ing Stiploscheck, who was not taking part in the competition. On the following morning however, Thelcn, Schlegel, Carcanico, Coerpcr, and von Beaulieu completed this stage. Of the others, von Thuna was held up at Eckenstein, Kastner at Neustadt, Bluthgen at Bucholz, and S uvelack at Heidelberg. During the 15th there arrived at Carlsruhe five military pilots from Strasburg, one from Munich, four from Metz and one from Mayence, all having entered for the reconnoitring flights on the 16th and 17th. Fine weather prevailed on the 16th inst., when at about 5 a.m. 22 machines started on the reconnaissance! from Carlsruhe for Strasburg, being escorted for part of the way by the Zeppelin “Sachsen.” They had to stop at Pforzheim and 13 succeeded in making the complete journey. On the next day, these pilots started on the last stage—a round trip to Frieburg and Neu Brisach and back, and nine of them succeeded in bringing back reports giving the location and strength of some troops which had been posted at various points. At the dinner at Strasourg, on Saturday night, Prince Henry of Prussia handed the Emperor’s and Prince Henry’s prices to Lieut. Canter, who used a Rumpler Taube monoplane, and his passenger, Lieut. Bohmer, won the Duke of Baden’s prize for the best report. The reliability prize went to Lieut, von Hiddessen, who used a Mars monoplane. Flight, 24.5.1913, p575
According to ‘Above Ypres’, by Bernard Deneckere, on 10 May 1915, Leutnant Wilhelm Frankl, FFA 40, shot down a Voisin with a ‘carbine’, for which he received the Iron Cross First Class. I assume that he was a ‘Leutnant’ at the time, as Deneckere then goes on to say that Frankl was promoted to Vizefeldwebel later in the year !
This is the same Frankl who was awarded the Pour le Merite and commanded Jasta 4, and is the subject of the 1967 Nowarra booklet ‘The Jew with the Blue Max’ ?
Deneckere identified this as ‘the first German victory as observer’.
Another candidate for ‘Franz Kaestner’, Hauptmann Gustav Kastner-Kirdorf, replaced Siegert as OC of the BAO, until August, 1915, when he took part of the BAO to Metz to form the BAM.
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